Onalaska is a city in Polk County, Texas
prism
@sskumday Theft is a meaningful concept only insofar as an authority of ownership is recognized and enforced through power, which makes sense within a single society or between members of societies which agree on the terms of ownership and some claim of said ownership. When you're talking about one civilization, nation, or state taking property from another, theft isn't a meaningful concept, for the same reason that laying claim to uninhabited land is not purchasing that land for the price of $0: It's just taking the land, making a claim that this land belongs to a particular member of a particular society and enforcing ownership through power.
That is the kernel of truth to the "Might is Right" way of thinking. There are two different concepts of property:
1. Property as a mutually agreed upon ledger by members of a society, or at the very least a ledger maintained implicitly or explicitly by an authority.
2. Property as what you physically control through power.
The foundation of Type 1 Property is a society which projects enough power to claim the assets in question as Type 2 Property.
When the English crown failed to prevent revolution, it lost its Type 2 Property rights to the assets of America, which nullified the Type 1 rights until further notice.
This differentiation of ownership into two types is precisely what is missing when, say, libertarians argue that taxation is theft. They are missing the fact that their Type 1 property rights are only guaranteed by someone who can claim their assets as Type 2 property. Everything else is just juggling bullshit.
This is also the secret behind why fiat currencies still work despite them rightly being called "funny money" and the like: As long as there is an authority which guarantees Type 2 property ownership of all assets, all you need is the ledger. You don' t need your money to have intrinsic value if you're going to depend entirely on the authority to provide Type 2 ownership.
The rest of your comments are repetition, more adverts for the prison gang. The reason you keep saying "Like I said" is because you're not dealing with what anyone else is saying.
sskumday
@prism We're broadly in agreement. The British Empire owned America by virtue of bringing a lot of guns to America and squatting on it with those guns. Through might. It was then taken from them through the force of similar arms wielded by the Spanish, French and - nominally but noteworthy, nonetheless - Americans. As I said - ha - I don't think the matter is particularly meaningful - there's no real point in the fact America stole her territory from the British beyond the simple fact it transparently happened, for neither good nor ill - and it was mostly just flair and flavor for my larger contention that "American Values" are insufficient to guarantee the continuation of the Republic. That has always been my point; that your values aren't magic by virtue of an origin story you hold particularly dear
I'm not advertising anything. I'm tabling a simple contention
That's also why I've been put in the position of having to repeat "Like I said."
> Me: "I believe there are tangible geopolitical, economic and political pressures being placed on the United States that will, if not rectified or reformed, cause the ethno-cultural balkanization of the Republic and its downfall. I think you're partially enabling them. Why? Do you think you should take another course? Would you?"
prism
@sskumday You not advertising anything is the same as the guy who "just wants to clean your carpet" and is totally not trying to sell a vacuum cleaner or subscription carpet cleaning service.
sskumday
> Various retellings of King Canuke's tale wherein individualists tell me they'll boldly stand before the tide and command it to stop
> Me: "Okay, you're entitled to your values but I think you're only human and should probably try and build some dams to hold back the tide too."
like
again
I really do not give a fuck about individualism and give a shit about the mechanics of the republic much more
prism
There you go trying to sell dams
sskumday
and have clearly badly misrepresented myself
how am I trying to sell things
I am literally asking you
what you would do
or how you will prevent
X
prism
Obviously you are not literally selling something. You are advocating for actions while claiming you're just talking about the truth
sskumday
So far as I am concerned I am
Again, I see nothing unique in America that will safeguard her from the same inevitable destiny of all multiethnic nations and republics
if something exists
and Human is right and I badly misunderstand America
tell me
I'm happy to be wrong
I'd like to see more of his footage of identtarians being beaten too
all I'm adding to that as a cravat is that "we have unique ideals" doesn't actually - at a systemic level - prevent the downfall of Republics and never has
prism
The only nations at 99% purity levels I know of are Japan and maybe Korea. Everywhere else is a mixture of lots of ethnic groups. Take Russia for example: Why aren't the Sakha people in Siberia causing all kinds of havoc for the rest of Russia?
sskumday
again, you mistake me for a white identitarian because I've pointed out they might gain support
prism
No: You claimed that multiethnic nations are doomed
I pointed out that almost all nations are multiethnic
And have been for a long time
sskumday
Okay, then to address your point;
because Russia is so vast that these ethnic groups are functionally segregated from one another without official government policies enforcing such, because political power in the nation is disproportionately held by one vast-majority ethnic group and because the ethnic Russians will, unlike white Americans, pretty much crush out of existence anyone except the most geopolitically valuable Chenynians who try
you must remember
one of the things I said was that a multiethnic Republic could break down into a Byzantine type oligarchy
in simple terms
Russia is a very large, Byzantine style oligarchy
this actually - as an olive branch, so it doesn't look like I'm merely badgering you to answer questions without contributing - is one of the things I think could be very helpful to America
I think the passage of a bill that legalized all forms of non-violent political discrimination could be extremely beneficial to you
let the left build places and force out people who support Trump and vice versa AND don't mandate such things. Give people the choice
I think you'd find, in time, you'd see society naturally segregate with like minded sorts and alot of the tensions that come with forced integration - again, Russia is vast and has this problem disproportionately less - would simmer down
prism
You're resting your argument on there being a critical point of geographical separation between ethnic groups which allows them to coexist within the same nation without much conflict.
Of course, you can invent all sorts of special points where what physicists would call "phase transitions" happen
sskumday
well there is another aspect to this too
prism
Geographical separation never stops empires
So why should it stop ethnic strife?
Why won't they just fill in the space between each other and have conflict?
sskumday
over time they will
and conflict will inevitably emerge
you asked why X isn't causing Y now
you didn't ask if it would
prism
Now you're talking about a faith claim
sskumday
No, I'm pointing to all established human history
like
if your claim is that tribes do not - as the mean norm - compete and clash on overtly ethno-tribal terms for material then you're dipping into some pretty severe relativism to the point of borderline history denial
and actually it's an extremely valuable point because I think it's gotten to the heart of this entire protracted debate
prism
Tribes compete and cooperate as it suits them
sskumday
you pointed out above somewhere that regression to the mean doesn't always happen and that's completely true
and I think if you and I are separated by anything at all
it is that you think the 1 in 100 chance is worth pursuing and I think the 99 in 100 chance is inevitable and you sometimes perhaps see me as demoralized for it and I sometimes perhaps see you as vainglorious for it
because the same is functionally true here
Diversity + Proximity = Conflict is almost an iron-clad rule of human nature and you're interested in the almost more than the iron-clad
which I find odd but I can respect, nonetheless
prism
Chance is always about ignorance. If I didn't the formula for the Fibonacci sequence, I would have no chance at predicting which number would come next in the sequence. Once I understood how the sequence was generated, suddenly my chances would go to 1/1. When we're talking about nation building or politics and all you want to do is point out the long list of historical failures, you're refusing to consider the possibility of gaining knowledge which will allow you to do something new, to exert more power than you could before. Looking at the failure of the Roman empire and concluding that empires always fall is the essence of what you're doing.
sskumday
Empires do always fall
but you've hit on my point
what has American learned and implemented that will specifically safeguard her from the fate of Rome?
prism
Only by promoting an empire to a nation and only considering supernations that fall could you conclude that
sskumday
that has always been my point
treat me as if I am as ignorant as Human says, maybe he's right
what specific mechanisms is there?
prism
At the most flippant and obvious level, we don't use lead pipes for plumbing
sskumday
Ha
well played but not what we're really talking about
prism
For America specifically, our economy does not depend on wars of conquest, which solves quite a lot of problems that the Romans didn't solve
sskumday
a debatable point depending on how one defines conquest but I'll pay it
I'd only add that you fight an awful lot of 'Maintain the Petrodollar" wars
If I was Snopes I'd partially true it ha
prism
Control of global trade so as to beat the Soviets in the cold war was something I would consider unprecedented, but the entire situation was
Haha yes, partially true lol
As to whether America falls or stands, time will tell. My argument is about what is possible, which is where the future always lies
sskumday
If I was to drill down and be very specific
I believe ethno-balaknization is a symptom of a deeper and more fundamental problem
that being that republics, over their lifespan - again, America is not unique in this - tend to have their Senatorial class hijacked by special interest, mercantilist bribery and accrue enough power onto themselves to become oligarchs in all but name
and it is this problem in particular I think America is rather terminally engulfed in far more than ethno-balkanization but I think this problem, if unaddressed, will cause greater ethno-balkanization
like
to be very candid about the issue
Americas are so desperate for reform they elected a circus clown in part out of 'fuck all of this burn it down' desperation
and the state has simply circled the wagons, isolated the circus clown and continued on its merry way unhindered, in many accounts
the entrenchment of a bureaucratic cabal - a Cathedral, to use the NRx terms - is brutal in America
this is why 'globalist' has become so popular in part... it puts a word to something many working class Americans can very clearly see
so SPECIFICALLY
I think the United States must find a way to break this cabal
and not in virtue signalling 'drain the swamp' terms
root and branch
and I'm not sure the Republic has such mechanisms
prism
From what I've seen, Trump is mostly maneuvering wherever the Cathedral isn't looking. Time will tell as to what he actually accomplishes, but I don't think he got elected without support from a counter cabal of disenfranchised people who still have some power
I.e. I don't think Trump is some super genius playing 4-D chess; I think he's the face of a network
That's the way I would attack the problem as well
You need someone to capture attention and unsettle everyone so that other people can work in the shadows
sskumday
I'd like to hope so
prism
On the mechanisms for defeating cabals through the American republic: It's an issue that goes back to the founding fathers. They were arguing about political parties and what to do about them from day 1
sskumday
it's worth clarifying for those that care that while I think Americans would be better off outside of the Republic I equally don't want it to die if Americans want it to be saved... I simply think it inevitably will
which is probably an important distinction
but yeah... I suppose to phrase the thing in glib terms; what is the mechanisms a highly liberal, highly individualistic, highly democratic republic uses when it simply has to remove a few thousand people if not more from society without becoming autocratic
prism
Quite simply: Law and order. You make bad behavior, like actual collusion with communists and foreign saboteurs, illegal, and then you process offenders properly.
sskumday
-and when they bring violence to bear against such measures and 'activate' their legions of brainfucked leftists with "Trump is officially launching a coup and arresting judges!" propaganda?
like
prism
That goes back to Type 2 Property
Whoever has the power to win will win
sskumday
I agree in principle
> Whoever has the power to win will win
How would such power be attained by your side? What would you have to do to win?
this has always been my point
but yeah in principle all of them should simply be arrested and trialed
prism
Ah well in that case, the solution is already in motion. Why have we met on this discord server?
sskumday
True enough, I suppose
prism
We are organizing from the bottom-up, but that can only go so far
When others organizing at higher levels give the signal, the pieces click into place
sskumday
my own belief is that inevitably, from out of the bottom, comes a Man of History
because yeah
I'm that '99 times out of 100 ain't bad odds' guy xD
or more accurately
from out of the very top or near the top comes a Man of History
prism
Yes, although it does have to do with where the writers come from too, eh?
And I'm fine with that part of human nature. People want a face to put on something
Even if all that guy did was show up at events
It's the same was as how NCOs in the military are the basis of the military but the generals get all the attention. The generals are necessary as a center or focus for human attention, to resolve minor conflicts, and make a handful of critical decisions
Or to take a potent example, Adolf Hitler. He wrote and talked a lot, and was the focal point for Germany organizing, but clearly he was not good at managing Germany. He was selected as an avatar for the sentiments of the German people
So to clarify what I'm saying: The Man of History is great for people who like to write history books, and is useful for people to use as unifying or organizing image, but he seldom makes a disproportionate impact outside of psychology.
sskumday
Yes and no
Above all else an executive, before all else, is the administrator who manages the agendas of all second-in-command powerbrokers
whether generals, bankers or beauracrats
and makes sure they're paid ha
so yes
the executive has quite limited functions, ideally
but they're VERY important
To a certain extent the role of an executive - in pure realpolitik terms - is that of a socialist
their job is to take taxes from the people and redistribute it to their powerful benefactors, or keys to power, to ensure they don't lose power
with the bonus that this creates a sometimes stable society
IDEALLY this would be an honorable process
but it almost never is
prism
I can agree with the majority of that, although one of the things that the executive "gives" powerful benefactors is supposed to simply be refraining from harming them. So it doesn't need to be material assets being transferred from the people to the powerful, but rather the use of the threat of violence against those benefactors to keep them from preying on the people
It's precisely the perversion of the executive branch that leads to the unjust transfer of wealth between classes, either due to the poor carving up the rich or the rich milking the poor
Human
@sskumday "I think the passage of a bill that legalized all forms of non-violent political discrimination could be extremely beneficial to you"
Human
You really don't get what our problems are here, they are not racial. Most of us have politically segregated a long time ago. The culture war is masking an economic war. 1/3 of Trumps voters were union Dems 20 years ago. Money and Imports are done on the coast and industry was the middle of the country. The Globalists took over and used the horde of lefty immigrants from Europe and idiot union Dems in the Heartland to vote in Trade deals that gutted industry in the Rust Belt and increased imports 1000x making more money from the imports. The Middle of America votes red and the big European immigrant cities on the coast vote Globalist while they try to force social marxism on us to shut us up about jobs. White conservatives and liberals in the heartland don't give a fuck about anything but getting their jobs back. They want back the days of 5 weeks vacation time to spend on their new (insert toy). Jet skis, quads, muscle cars, RV, sports cars, sport bikes, boats. Lower middle class can afford a lot of this when the economy is rolling and the bank will loan you up to your whole paycheck. Not only can they afford it but they can afford all that gasoline. Our bums have phones and a lot of them manage to stay fat with dope issues.
Human
A lot of people from all races choose to live in the same places and have no issues with each other across same economic status. People that want to segregate already have, the upper middle class and rich lefties all live in gated communities. People have done studies that they get riled up when a couple of Mexican families pretend to move in and use public transit. Then you have places like where Im from that are just little towns spread out in a lot of nothing where no one but whites and Indians want to live because the winters are harsh.
We literally have the issue sorted, all of this lefty identpol bullshit is to stir up what you are trying to stir up, why do you want the same thing as the commies?
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